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The Raw Dog Food Truth
Pets with allergies, skin issues gut issues, and behavior issues can live better lives by eating a species-appropriate diet. Find out the dangers of kibble and cooked foods. Your Pet's Health Is Our Business "Friends Don't Let Friends Feed Kibble"
The Raw Dog Food Truth
My Dog's Mystery Illness and the Veterinary Industry's War on Raw Feeding
What happens when your raw-fed dog has a medical emergency and you're caught in the corporate veterinary system? Prepare for sticker shock, judgment, and a battle to make the right choices for your pet.
DeDe Murcer Moffett, CEO of Raw Dog Food and Company, shares the anxiety-inducing saga of her dog's sudden illness that led to a recommendation for $16,000 exploratory surgery. The moment staff spotted DeDe raw dog food company truck in the parking lot, the attitude shifted dramatically – she became labeled as "one of those raw feeders," facing condescension and refusal to consider perspectives beyond their standard protocols.
The clinic's walls were plastered with signs threatening to terminate care for anyone who questioned their medical decisions, creating an environment where pet parents feel powerless during their most vulnerable moments. DeDe transferred her pet to her daughter's veterinary clinic, where a more pragmatic approach allowed the dog to recover completely without surgery.
Dr. Judy Jasek provides invaluable context throughout, explaining how corporate veterinary medicine has moved away from the "Volkswagen, Chrysler, or Cadillac" approach to care options, instead pushing maximum intervention regardless of necessity. She shares hope for the future through her work with veterinary students interested in holistic approaches, suggesting mentorship may eventually transform the profession.
Don't wait until an emergency to build relationships with veterinarians who respect your feeding choices. Find allies who understand that sometimes the most effective treatment is giving the body time to heal naturally rather than rushing into aggressive interventions. Your pet's health – and your wallet – may depend on it.
Raw Dog Food and Company where Your Pet's Health is Our Business and Friends Don't Let Friends Feed Kibble
Contact Us Today We Can Help Your Pets Live Happier Healthier Lives
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Speaker 2:Well, hello raw feeders. I'm Dee Mersamoffit, CEO of Raw Dog Food and Company, where your pet's health is our business. We're friends, like my friend, Dr Judy Jasik. Ma'am, you tell all your people to feed Kibble, don't you, Dr Jasik?
Speaker 1:Yep, I just tell them, load them up on all those Froot Loops and then give them sticker bars for treats, and your dog will be healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on all those Fruit Loops and then give them sticker bars for treats, and your dog will be healthy. Yeah, life would be easy if we did that, wouldn't it? Sure does seem like it, because you know I happen to be in the um, the ER, the VCA God forbid, uh. But Lazi, okay, let's just talk about this. Dr Jessica Lazi got I, I fed her, walked around the lake. She dropped a toy in the lake, and this lake that's here, it's blue, they have a lot of stuff in it, right, and she grabbed the toy out of my hand. Usually, if she drops it in that water, I won't let her.
Speaker 2:Okay, now, whether this was the thing or not, I don't know, and this is what I want to talk about today. Is that how we think we know what the problem is and we jump to conclusions and then we find out we really didn't know what the problem was. And how do we handle that? How do we handle being treated poorly by veterinarians? Okay, so we are out of the house for I don't know two or three hours and we come back, and so Loz has eaten. You know, a couple hours before we did the walk around the lake. Blah, blah, blah, come home.
Speaker 2:She is projectile vomiting and I'm talking about I don't think I've ever seen a dog vomit that much water, and it was water. I mean she would just drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink, drink and then just blow it out, yeah, and like five times Right. And so I'm like what in the world is going on? What is happening? So I'm thinking what could it be Right? And I'm thinking, okay, two days ago she had a raw meaty beef. Oh, my gosh, does she have a blockage? You know. So I'm texting you and talking to you and you know my team, you guys are always great about calming me down and so we, we took the water away because she kept like drinking the water and then throwing up.
Speaker 2:But by about three in the morning I heard her up and I heard her dragging a foot. You could hear on this tile, I could hear her toenails. So I was like, okay, this dog is clearly totally dehydrated. We don't have any lactic ringers, uh, lactate ringers here where we can do underneath, you know, the skin. Yeah, I don't have any sub-q. So we went ahead and took her to an emergency clinic down the road. Now they, they and one thing, but so many things about the veterinary profession today is that they weren't going to do anything until I paid the deposit. And before I paid a deposit they had to decide how much they wanted to charge me. So here's my dog, clearly in distress, and they're saying well, we've taken her, you know we, we've taken her blood pressure and this and that she's not in danger of basically what they were saying. She's not in danger of dying at the moment. And you know, pet parents are freaking out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that deposit was $5,000. Okay, and so she stayed and I was texting you on this. They they came up with everything, Dr Jasek. They they were like all right, we do an x-ray. We don't think it's a blockage. They did check her for pyro. You told me to check her for pyro. You told me to check her for pyro to make sure you know that she wasn't having some sort of issue because she's intact. Um, they wanted to check her for lepto. That's a 350 fee, by the way, and I'm thinking why checking for lepto? What's the prevalence of lepto?
Speaker 1:because because you paid them $5,000. So do you think that they're going to do less than $5,000 worth of care? You're not going to say, oh, they can afford 5,000. So we're going to check her out for 2000. It's become that much of a racket and it's absolutely disgusting. It is disgusting.
Speaker 2:And then through the, through the you know time that she was there two days on IV fluids, they were checking her blood panel and it was this oh my gosh, oh my gosh her kidneys, you know. And they want to say, they want to act like the kidneys are failing because they have a bun and creatin level going up. And you were looking at that and saying, all right, this is not, this is not end of life kidney problem. Right, this is.
Speaker 1:And she'd been vomiting, which means that she's going to be dehydrated and probably her electrolytes out of balance, and all that just because of the vomiting. But yeah, they're saying your kidneys are shutting down and all this stuff. It's like no, the values weren't even anywhere near that.
Speaker 2:So you know, I got the big, the big attitude because I'm a raw feeder. Now I don't. I didn't tell anybody I'm a raw feeder but my truck happens to have raw dog food all over it. Dead giveaway. I didn't tell anybody I'm a raw feeder but my truck happens to have raw dog food all over it. It was a dead giveaway, to which that's what they think. And I always tell our pet parents do not tell them, you're a raw feeder unless you like being beat up, unless you like being treated like a second class citizen, unless you like being treated how you were treated during COVID, when you didn't take the vaccine or wear the mask, because that's exactly how raw feeders are treated.
Speaker 2:Now this VCA decided that they wanted us to transfer her. Okay, and Amanda, our daughter, who's also a vet, said look, they've asked for you to transfer her twice. Now I would get her out of there because clearly they couldn't do anything more. They didn't know. Um, they wanted to put her on antibiotics. They wanted to do this, I wanted to do that. We were like no, no, no, with your guidance, thank god, and uh. So anyway, we took her to another vca the next day. They they set up the transfer because they had an ultrasound. They wanted to do an ultrasound. Let's make sure that's not a blockage. Okay, that's fine, we'll go do that.
Speaker 2:But here's where the problem really came into play, because now we're at a VCA big ER okay and they again see my truck pull up because there's a bunch of glass mirrors there. I can see it right from the waiting room, the big truck. That's classic, right, right, and we walk in and they're going to send a tech out first to get all of our information. And this girl, who is probably my niece's age, somewhere in her 20s, has this like incredible I'm God attitude. And she said okay, now you're a raw feeder. And I said how did you know that? I didn't tell you that? And she said well, we all saw your truck as you pulled up. We were in a meeting.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you're already labeled. Label, you got your target right on your head. Forget about what's best for your dog.
Speaker 2:you're an evil raw feeder then she proceeded to tell me well, raw is not. You know is not. What did she say? She was telling me that how bad raw was because they just had a cat that had the bird flu. I said you know what? I would so love to see those results and see how you connected that cat's issues to the bird flu. And she said, oh well, that's private information.
Speaker 1:I said of course it is, Because of course it is.
Speaker 2:Because they don't have the information Right. And Rick's kicking me because he's like shut up, de, we just need to get our dog looked at and get her out of here now. They, they took so long. I bet we waited there two and a half hours. Finally, um, they, they.
Speaker 2:We got to see dr johnson, who again was some young doctor who thought she was God and came in and she said because at this point Lassie hadn't eaten, right, she hadn't eaten for like three days and they were going to do an ultrasound. And so my question was after you do the ultrasound, can I take her out of here and feed raw? Absolutely not. I said I can't take her out and feed her raw. Absolutely not. Our policy is to never feed raw. I said, well, your policy is to never and my policy is to always.
Speaker 2:Okay, right, and she hadn't even gone back for the ultrasound. So she goes back for the ultrasound and they give us a call and they said well, we kind of see, you know, something here in the lower intestine and it could be gas and it could be a blockage. We just don't know. But here's your quote it's anywhere between 15 and 17 thousand dollars, right For surgery, right For surgery that they don't know if there's a blockage, right For surgery, that they don't know if there's a blockage. I said here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to come and pick my dog up and I'm going to take her to my daughter in Moab. And they said oh, we highly discourage that. I said do you now Right and try?
Speaker 1:and stop me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and here was the thing about this, dr Jason. Number one they have an attitude towards raw feeders, okay. Two, they have these signs up everywhere that say this I'm going to find it really quick. Basically, it is a sign that discourages you from disagreeing from anything that they say. And this is what is so hard on our pet parents. I mean, you know how hard it was on me, right, because you were talking to me through the whole thing and, as you said, I've been doing this a while, but when it's your dog, you're scared. You said I've been doing this a while, but when it's your dog, you're scared. Certainly I've got you guys. I don't know how our pet parents do it and I don't know how they afford it.
Speaker 1:Right, a lot of them can't. A lot of dogs end up being euthanized because they can't and they don't give them any lesser option. It's either this our way or guess, if you can't afford that, you just have to euthanize your dog. Right, and sadly that people end up doing that. I mean because I've talked to people. You know, sometimes people will get in that circumstance and then, like they know about us and they'll come to us and say, okay, this is what's going on, is there anything else we can do? And like, sure, there's other things we can do.
Speaker 1:Like a dog like Lazi, like you know, if you can, you know, take her home, keep her hydrated, give her some time. They've ruled out a blockage. You know there's no obvious like big life-threatening problem. Let's just give it, you know, a little bit of time and some natural support and we give them some other options. Or like the kidney shutting down. You know they have people so scared it's like let's just give it a little time, let's see if the body can rebound from this so we can give people other options. But it just makes me wonder how many people just euthanize their pets because they don't have 15 grand for surgery.
Speaker 2:Not only that, dr Chasick, but giving them the wrong medication for the wrong diagnosis at the wrong time. Okay, so let me just tell you they have these signs up everywhere at this VCA that says we have a zero tolerance policy. We have a zero tolerance policy for verbal abuse, demanding behavior of any kind or aggression towards our staff, and any client violating this will be immediately and permanently asked to leave and future medical services will not be provided. They have that everywhere. That is crazy, everywhere, everywhere. So what happened?
Speaker 2:I go up there and this little tech that was challenging me because she was telling me not all dogs can eat raw. I said why do you say that? Well, they just can't digest it. Blah, blah, blah. And she was just going on and she was being very aggressive and I said when did you graduate vet school? She said oh'm, I'm not a vet, I'm a tech. And I said oh, okay, and of course Rick's like shut up, deedee. So anyway, I said, and we talked to you and we talked to Amanda. Amanda said just get in the, just get in the car. It's a seven hour drive. It's a seven hour drive. Bring her to me, i'll'll do an ultrasound, I'll do more x-rays, we're not going to go in and do a what-if surgery. No, right, and at this point we brought her home. We gave her food, we gave her water. She did not throw it up. Okay, that's when I? Okay, I'm getting in the truck.
Speaker 2:I drove all the way to Moab. We got there. She did ultrasound x-ray. She said I'm not seeing a block. Okay, they did more blood work. At this point it came back and she said I think this dog could be adizonian or Addison's disease. Now you and I were talking, you were like okay, most dogs that have this, would you call it an autoimmune adrenal gland assault? What would you? What would you classify Addison's as?
Speaker 1:Well, it's destruction of the adrenal cortex. So there's different layers to the adrenal gland. The adrenal cortex produces cortisol, which is like our natural adrenaline. That's the hormone that goes up when you're stressed. But the other thing the adrenal gland does is it regulates electrolytes, and the reason Addison's can become so life-threatening so fast is that your electrolytes get out of balance. And I think Lazi had some blood work showed her sodium was low. But that can also happen with a whole bunch of vomiting and because electrolytes are out of balance, because she's been puking so much, she's vomiting up water so much. So, yeah, you know that could be a reason.
Speaker 1:But Addison's is this destruction of the adrenal gland and it's typically thought to be autoimmune. Well, what sets off autoimmune disease vaccines, pharmaceuticals, all this stuff that Lazi never gets. So for her to have something, it's like an unknown destruction of the adrenal gland due to inflammation and toxicity from pharmaceuticals and vaccines and all these drugs, all this stuff that she never gets. So there's just in my mind. I'm just like, okay, that would be like a one in a million chance that Lazi has Addison's disease.
Speaker 2:So we say, all right, that's the first night she goes and she stays in the hotel with me. She didn't stay in the clinic. We're not even doing fluids. She wasn't dehydrated at this point right, because she's holding down water.
Speaker 2:Right, she's holding down water. They'd given her fluids at this. You know Dr Johnson's, you know place One of the doctors there that was there. They are such little gods. It's incredible, right, and it's disgusting. And you do not have freedom to speak, okay, because they will deny you services and if you have a sick dog, then you have to go through this whole long process again of writing up all this stuff, right? So I see this is so covid, like it's, it's, it's insane. All right, I'm down there, she's in the hotel with me.
Speaker 2:Amanda says feed her, you know, and she sees. She said look, here's the other thing, didi. She's looking on the x-ray and she said there's poop in the colon. That means there is no blockage. She's holding down water. She said if it is a blockage, it's a partial and maybe she's going to poop it out. So feed her right Now. She had gone through about three days of this vomiting, not really eating, and one of the things was I wanted to get her out of there because they absolutely were not going to feed her raw, would not let me feed her raw, would not let her go outside and eat raw. If I fed her raw, she was out of there. They were cutting off services, but every dog that walked in this clinic and this ER was fat, was limping, was out of shape and they're just giving them greenies and all that other crappy food. Okay, but we're not going to treat your dog that looks great, other than you know why you're in here.
Speaker 1:Okay, Again it's COVID. Like no vaccine, no service.
Speaker 2:Right. So anyway, I take her to the hotel with me and you know she's still kind of, you know, not not feeling great, but she's eating her. Her kind of, you know, not not feeling great, but she's eating her, her, um, her, uh, appetite was coming back up and there was a lot of peeing. She was doing a lot of peeing and and there was some bacteria in the pee, so amanda wanted to give her some of the chewable antibiotics just to clear that up. All right, so we did that. Next day we do more blood work and now the blood work comes back as not Addison's, possibly Cushing's, which is the opposite, which is the opposite. And the vets there are just like no, I don't believe that. I don't believe that at all. I don't think this is, you know, we're not going to. And thank goodness that Amanda has gone through acupuncture and chiropractic, because that also opened her up to herbs, like what you're doing, right, and she's also listened to you, listened to what you're doing, seeing what we've done with you.
Speaker 1:She's, you know, a ranch girl, right, she's been a lot of time at Cal Ranch, more pragmatic in her thinking, right, she's just a little more like let's use some logic and common sense. Those vets and those techs in those ERs the only thing they look at are the blood results. They don't look at the patient, they don't evaluate the patient as they are physically. What's going on? They're only looking at the results and they keep testing because they don't know how to treat unless they can name something. But, amanda, you know, because of her she has a little bit more natural training and then she's a little more logic, just just using some fricking common sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she says we're not doing anything, I'm going to find you somebody there in Arizona that you can go to. That's not like the VCA people, Because she's gone to and she said and we'll go back in.
Speaker 1:She used to live in Arizona, didn't she?
Speaker 2:Yeah, flagstaff, she was out here and so she said we'll get some more blood work. But Blasi is totally and completely back to normal. And you look through everything that we went through and I can see where a poor pet parent would immediately start on steroids, immediately start on antibiotics, immediately go to surgery.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just want to save their dog. They're afraid.
Speaker 2:Right, they're afraid, and the vets don't make it easy. So, long story short is you got to have a team that thinks outside of the box, and that is one thing that you're not going to find. Guys in corporate facilities, like you said. They look at all these diagnostics and if they can't name it, they just keep testing, keep testing, keep testing until they get something Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Oh, here it is. Let me put your dog on X, y, z.
Speaker 1:And they had done surgery on her, I can guarantee you they would have wanted to biopsy every organ in her belly. They would have taken pieces out of every single one of them because they got to keep looking. So they would have wanted to do, you know that much more testing on her until they found or created an illness at that point like and you weren't allowing them to pump her full of drugs but a lot of dogs in those cases on multiple antibiotics and payments, they're on eight or 10 different drugs and then they take them to surgery and then they cut off pieces of all their organs and eventually, yeah, they get sick because they're in the fricking hospital and they're poisoning them.
Speaker 2:It. You know, when this one vet said to me I think we should test her for lepto, I said do you know what the the the incident of lepto is here? I said it is so rare and I'm not in. You know. They're like well, it's zoonotic, is it now? Yeah, and your whole family could get it. I doubt it, but you go ahead. At that point I said you just go ahead and test for that, but I promise you she doesn't have lepto. And they look at me like I am crazy. They look at and and I I how many? I mean obviously they have pet parents that push back or they wouldn't have this. No verbal abuse. I mean there's a reason that you know that's up. But I've been at Mayo. You know quite a bit with this cancer issue going on in the family. Nobody at Mayo acts like that. There's not one sign up at Mayo that says, hey, keep your damn mouth shut or we're going to deny you services. That doesn't happen. So why is that happening at a VCA?
Speaker 1:Why? Because they want to have complete control. I had never heard this. The first time I've heard that about those signs. That really, really shocks me. And you know?
Speaker 1:Another kind of thing to guide pet parents like if you're getting, if you're in a good place or a reasonable place is they should always give you choices. It should never be this is a my way or the highway place, clearly, but I remember being taught this or learning this early on, probably more from in clinics that I worked at, not really in the vet school, but that you know you should always give people choices, because you know they're asking for that deposit, they're assessing your ability to pay and they're going to do procedures based on your ability to pay. Can you pay Like, do you think they can pay for it? I guarantee you they're doing that, you know. But you know the way I learned was that you don't know how much somebody can afford, so you give and you don't ever make that judgment, but you give people choices and I remember it being I can't remember who explained it to me this way. It was very early on in my career but you give people, like the Volkswagen, choice. So if they don't have a lot of money.
Speaker 1:So your dog's vomiting, let's get her rehydrated. Hey, you could take some fluids home, give sub-Q fluids if you need to. You know, let's take one x-ray. Make sure she doesn't have a blockage. Take her home, keep her hydrated. Let's give her 24 hours and see what happens. And then there's that's the Volkswagen approach. And then you do the Chrysler approach. So maybe, hey, let's do some blood work while she's here. So you do a little more. And then, okay, here's the Cadillac approach. We can keep her overnight and observe her for you. But you give people choices, and if you go into a vet clinic and they're not giving your choices this my way, or the highway get out of there, go someplace else, because they should give you choices A, b and C. It should not be about the money. Okay, these are your choices, these are the three price points. How would you like to proceed? That's the way you know medicine should be approached.
Speaker 2:You know you were talking about leaving with some sub-Q fluids. They wouldn't give us that it doesn't surprise me fluids. They wouldn't give us that it doesn't surprise me. She goes because you might, you know, overdose her own fluids and I was like, okay, I mean, just everything was so militant and and you want to know how much we spent $8,000. Wow, now we have pet insurance, thank God, so that's going to bring that way down. But that's just standard. It's just like $8,000. I mean, how many people have $8,000?
Speaker 2:You know, I was talking to Becca, our general manager. She has a dog who just loves to eat socks and panties, right, and this dog has and toys and stuff like that. So she's had to take all that away. But throughout his life I think she's had to do this three times, and one time she was at CSU and I think that she you know, becca is a very strong personality and they came out and said it was going to be $6,000. She said you're going to have to figure this out. You're going to have to figure out a way that you're going to treat my dog, not let my dog die, and I don't have $6,000. So we got to figure something out to which they gave her a grant thousand dollars. So we got to figure something out to which they gave her a grant.
Speaker 2:So I think you and I've talked about this on a previous podcast um, where you know you, you can push back. Um, the the one thing that I think, um, what I would say is they wouldn't let us go back there. Dr Jasek, in Amanda's clinic you can see everything that's going on with your dog. Okay, they wouldn't let us go in for the ultrasound. When I got Lossie to Amanda's clinic and they took the Band-Aids off her arms amanda's clinic and they took the band-aids off her arms they were like, oh my god, what? What were they doing? Did this?
Speaker 1:dog she had, so many bruises, oh gosh.
Speaker 2:And she had a giant hematoma right here in the chest area and probably drew blood from her jugular. That lozzie's not one of those dogs that flip-flops around, she doesn't. She will sit still. I was so angry. She was like, oh my gosh. And they didn't know how to hit the vein.
Speaker 1:They were poking, poking, poking poking, trying to find the vein right right so it was, it was.
Speaker 2:It was not a good experience, but I will say she's totally back to normal now. I mean, a raw feeder could immediately go to. Oh my gosh, it's the raw food. Oh my gosh it's. It's a raw meaty bone that I gave her the day before. Right, wasn't either one. To this day we do not know what it was right. I have no idea. There's no blockage. She's eating raw food. You know, it's not Lepto, it's not Addison's, not Cushing's, you know, and we'll go back and do.
Speaker 2:But I was like, could it have been some sort of toxin that was in that water? Could it have been? I don't know, but I think it's so easy, it's so easy for us as human beings to think it's one thing when it's something totally different. Right, and we see that a lot in this industry, in the raw dog food industry. You will not see it in the kibble industry. You won't see it in the prescription diet industry. Right, they will never look at the food because they believe that it's the best thing since sliced bread. I was in the grocery store and I heard this woman. The son was saying all right, mom, we need to get your dog some dog food. And and um she was getting and he pulled open the fresh pet. She said oh no. My vet said I can't feed that fresh pet. And he said why? And she said because it's too fattening. And I didn't say a word. I bet you're biting your tongue, but you know it doesn't do me any good because nobody thinks I know my ass from a homeowner.
Speaker 1:They're not going to pay attention because the vet said it and so she's going to believe what the vet said. Yeah, yeah, you didn't have your white coat on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the vet said I needed to do a surgery. That was you know, 15 to what, 15, $16,000. And and and there. And that was not true. So what I'm telling you is be careful. Be careful before you say, okay, that is definitively. Be careful before you say okay, that is definitively it. Because it wasn't and it wasn't pyro, it wasn't a blockage, it wasn't Addison's, it wasn't Cushing's, it wasn't lepto. You know it wasn't. The kidneys were failing and she's going to die they wanted to open her up, not knowing what it was.
Speaker 1:They didn't know what it was. They didn't know. They wanted to open her up, not knowing what it was. They didn't know what it was, they didn't even have a diagnosis. They said, well, maybe you know, maybe it's a blockage. You can very clearly see a blockage on x-rays because the the you know, either you can there's stuff moving through the intestines and if it's stopped up, then on this side it's like when you dam up a river, this side floods. So in the intestines that side gets really big and you can see it's coming down. And then all of a sudden this side's really big and this side's really skinny and oh my gosh, there could be a blockage there. Or you just wait a day. If she's stable, you give it a day and see if she poops, or if there's poop in the colon, just like Amanda did. You know, if there's poop in the colon, then things are moving through. You know. Again, it just comes down to logic and common sense. Clearly they had neither one.
Speaker 2:Now I also want to talk about pooping. After an incident like this, dr JC, because I have to say that I was I was surprised that it took her as long as it did to begin to poop again. This was something that really bugged me, right, because she's always been. You know, every day get up and poop and you were saying give it some time. Amanda was like this is my last worry her pooping. You know it takes a while to make poop, especially from raw food, because it's so highly digestible, high in moisture and she hadn't eaten and, like I mean, before she started eating again, she hadn't eaten in several days and she'd been vomiting.
Speaker 1:So everything was cleaned out and they had sedated her several times. Because they sedated her for the x-rays, the ultrasound, those drugs will slow down the gi mortality too. So and and the stress and everything, so probably her gi tract just wasn't, wasn't working normally yeah, because she eats somewhere around 22 ounces a day.
Speaker 2:So I knew that I had fed her for three days maybe three and a half days and that poop. Then she finally pooped and I was so excited, Static.
Speaker 1:I remember your text oh my gosh, she finally pooped.
Speaker 2:She can stop worrying about the poop Right. So anyway, she, she's totally back to normal and you know I got this text from the VCA hospital that they would like you know, a review, and I was like that's funny.
Speaker 1:I'd like to read that, and you know like I don't know.
Speaker 2:Do you think I should?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I always go back and forth. When I have unfavorable experiences somewhere, it's like writing the review just kind of brings it all up to the surface again. It's like, do I want to go through that or just let it go, because they're just going to say, oh, she's just a crazy raw feeder and probably delete it anyway.
Speaker 2:So you know what I thought about doing. I thought going and buying dr connor brady's book feeding feeding dogs and dropping it off at this little tech, the little um militant brought you, wrap it up and say I got you guys a gift because my dog was in here.
Speaker 1:I'm so appreciative. Here's a gift for you guys because I think it's box of candy.
Speaker 2:Or something right, because it it goes through. You know who are you, who is funding your education? Right, and they don't know, because they are in an echo chamber. They don't know that, they don't know. They just like the feeling that we know, that we're the authority, right, and it is so maddening for pet parents, it's so, it's awful, it's awful. And you know, dr Jacek, at one time we talked about buying a clinic. Right, you and I talked about buying a clinic, but then about buying a clinic, right, you and I talked about buying a clinic. But then and Amanda was saying the same thing, the problem would be finding vets that would come and do the work and be outside of the box, right, that aren't, that aren't afraid, that can think without a diagnosis. That's what Amanda was saying too. She was like exactly what you said. She said, oh my God, can they do anything without a test? Can they look at the animal? Can they? Can they? And the answer is no.
Speaker 1:You know I had a very interesting conversation today that actually gives me some hope for the future of veterinary medicine, because stories like yours I hear a lot and it just destroys all my hope. But so I'm working with this foundation. It's an anthroposophia foundation that's helping to educate. It started with human practitioners but we moved into educating veterinarians and the principles of anthroposophic medicine, which was started by Rudolf Steiner. But it's it's it's holistic medicine. Basically, he just kind of had his own system of doing it. And so we've got this group of vets and we meet once a month and we talk about how do we get the word out, how do we help support veterinarians that are interested in practicing this way, because it's a lonely road, you know you're out there by yourself. How do we help support veterinarians that are interested in practicing this way, because it's a lonely road, you know you're out there by yourself. How do we provide mentorship and community around this to help encourage vets, help vets start their own business, you know, because so they're not stuck in a job where they have this interest but they can't practice it. So we're exploring this. Well, one of the vets is in the Chicago area, chicago Illinois area, and she used to teach at the University of Illinois Veterinary School and she put me in touch with I'm like kind of one of the leads in this group. So she put me in touch with the students. So this is a veterinary second year veterinary student that's heading up. They have a holistic vet group for the students. This is a veterinary second year veterinary student that's heading up there. They have a holistic vet group for the students. So it's actually a group of veterinary students interested in holistic medicine.
Speaker 1:And this particular gal got started because I asked her. I said do you have an interest or a background in holistic medicine? How did you get started? She happened to meet Barb Royal, who's pretty well-known holistic vet. She's in the Chicago area, she's written books and all this stuff, and so this gal had started like volunteering at her clinic and started to learn. At least there's some different ways of doing things. Now she's president of this group.
Speaker 1:So I said okay, how can we support you? How do we get you guys? You know, not just you know, because they can learn about this in school. I said but you get out in the real world. It's a whole different story. A lot of the kids in your group are going to get out there, they're going to get jobs in corporate clinics. They're not going to be able to practice any of this. So how do we provide mentorship and help keep you guys interested, maybe even find jobs? So the vets that are in the foundation that can't find practitioners, well, maybe we can connect them with graduates from veterinary schools in these groups that are interested in holistic medicine. So we're just brainstorming.
Speaker 1:But I was very excited to talk to a veter brainstorming. But I was very excited to talk to a veterinary student. That's interesting and she was so excited to talk to me. She's like, oh, she's like we need mentorship so badly. We need people that have been out there that can help us help provide community. And I and she's told me she said so I'm a second year.
Speaker 1:Next year we start our clinical rotations, which is, I remember those couple of years. It's very demanding, we don't have time for anything else and I said so we need to reconnect with you guys when you're getting ready to graduate and go out in the real world and then help mentor you out in the real world. So the foundation group that I'm in, we have our monthly meeting next week, so I'm going to be presenting to them this conversation and how do we, you know, let's get a program together? And this gal was like, yeah, let's connect over the summer. Their school year is ending now, so we'll be picking this up in the fall. But she was like how do we connect, how do we provide this mentorship for these vet students so they can get out in the world and carry this on? So it gave me a little hope that maybe we can get more holistic vets out there in the world, because if we're not inspiring the young generations, I mean I'm gonna do this just so long I don't get all the gray hair I got already.
Speaker 1:You know like it's gonna be a day where I say I'm hanging out with my chickens and my garden, and that's it, you know but let's get the youngsters out there and I think if there's some out there that are all interested, they're just going to need encouragement because it's tough. They're going to go get jobs in clinics like you took, and what choice. They're not going to be able to. And they've got debts, they've got to make a living and they're not going to have a lot of choices. So I think if we can help encourage the younger generation of vets, then maybe we can end up with more holistic vets out there.
Speaker 1:I'm hoping, I'm willing to, I'm willing to work, I'm willing to drive up there to U of I and talk to this group. You know I'll go to other vet schools. She also had contacts through Dr Royal for other holistic clubs in other vet schools and I'm like I would travel. I mean, I'd be committed enough to that to go and go to some of these schools and talk to these kids and, you know, encourage them. So so it's promising. It gave me it's like yeah, the first time in a long time I I feel hope for this profession because all I do right now is see it going down the tubes, because I hear so many stories like yours and it's getting worse. Every story I hear it's like, oh my gosh, it's getting worse.
Speaker 2:So well, what? Uh, you know, I I walked away. Never, never once did I think it had anything to do with the food, right? Right, there was a moment where I was like, is that, you know, did she get a blockage from eating a raw meaty bone, right that that that frightened me a little bit, but it was a couple of days, so I was like, no, probably not.
Speaker 1:You'd see that bones show up really obviously on x-rays and if there wasn't a bone there on the x-ray, then she'd already pooped it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she doesn't. She's not one of those dogs that eats toys or fabric or stuff like that. So I, I, I need your panties, she doesn't, and thank God and um, and so I, yeah, it was. It was a true mystery, and can dogs just get a stomach, you know thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean she probably probably picked up something. I mean, you don't know, you're an area where lots of people walk their dogs. You just don't know what. What could somebody throw down? Did they spray? For they did, or weeds or I?
Speaker 2:because I was asking. I was asking the um in this association. Here they were putting these flags out yesterday and I said are you, is this pesticides, we killer? They were like no, we're just doing aerated. That happened a couple of. They were like that was a couple of weeks ago and I was like right when that happened. Right then I also see where um people have things. They're the little um rat. You know how they can go in these little things for the little mice. I guess there's mice around here and stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, the trap them.
Speaker 2:So I was like, could have been that? I mean literally, I was thinking of everything possible, cause I just couldn't figure it out. But you know, they tested her for so many different things and it was like Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, Okay, well, maybe she's just dehydrated, okay.
Speaker 1:So you know, and the vomiting you know, like we've talked about this, what does vomiting mean? What's the body trying to tell us? It's going to get rid of something and with the level of vomiting she had, it's getting. It needs to get rid of something bad, quick Cause it's like it's everything's got to come out and it's got to keep coming out. You know, the problem is, when that happens, they get dehydrated and most of even like in parvo, in puppies, the most important thing is the hydration, because they're pooping it out the back end, like this horrific bloody diarrhea, and puking it out. I mean, they get so dehydrated so fast and it's really the fluids that saves them. Just got to push the fluids because they cannot stay hydrated, the dehydration. I think that really kills those puppies, can't stay on top of it. Now those puppies go into the hospital that are supposedly diagnosed with parvo, but they give them fluids.
Speaker 1:And then they're like I've seen these reports like eight or 10 drugs. And then, because I see puppies not making it like, I treated a lot of puppies early in my career, supposedly at Parvo, and you bring them in. The main thing is the fluids. You just keep pushing, push the fluids. And we were a small clinic. We had three vets there, so we're up all night monitoring and we'd have multiple puppies on IVs and you just keep those fluids running to them and we might give them a, you know, antibiotic injection, give them a penicillin injection or something, but these drugs they give these days they didn't even exist back then and the main thing was you just keep the fluids.
Speaker 1:And now I mean I don't see Parvo diagnosed too often, but I've seen a few cases in the last few years where, like, the puppies die and these are puppies that had a good foundation, like eating raw. I'm like why are these puppies dying? And then I look at the report and they got like they're on like eight or ten different drugs when they're in there. Well, they poisoned them. They poisoned if they're already sick, their body's already trying to expel something, and then they keep putting all these. They'll be on like three different antibiotics and all this stuff and a lot of antibiotics are toxic to the kidneys. That's why, you know, I didn't want you to let them start loziening up any antibiotics, because the kidneys have to process that stuff.
Speaker 1:And there's some that are very toxic to the kidneys that you don't want to do. So it's just, it's it's so bad and there's just no common sense. They don't even understand how the body works. Like we said, they're just looking at their blood tests.
Speaker 2:They're so tunnel vision well, just the whole comment that this little text. She was like we had a cat in here that had the bird flu right, did you now the whole media?
Speaker 1:the whole media is the parroting the media narrative on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started to say and did you have a bunch of dogs back a couple of years ago that were cardi, dilated cardiomyopathy, the old dcm? You know I should have, yeah, but she, she and I were gonna go head to head and, um, and Rick was like, play the game, we just need to get our dog. Well, and get her out of here, didi and and and that is true, that's true, it. But I just don't. It's hard not to. I just don't have it in me. I just am like you know, I, I, uh, I.
Speaker 2:I felt like I was fighting for all of our pet parents out there that are treated like criminals and yet, I mean, they are so willing, these vets, to put all these toxins in these dogs' bodies, right, and think nothing of it. Exactly like the attitude that happened during covid. Yeah, it, it's just beyond me. Um, so I, I don't know what the total answer is pet parents, but I will say this you, you, you and dr j6 says it all the time, you're going to have to have somebody in your corner that you can bounce things off of and keep you stable during that moment when you're freaking out because you, your dog, is sick.
Speaker 2:Okay, the second thing is try not to do knee jerk reactions, try to give it some time. Try not to do knee jerk reactions, try to give it some time. And when you talk to somebody like Dr Jay-Z who says look Fluids, give them some time. And if it was a blockage you would see this. And if it was that, you would see this right, no matter what the vets coming up with with this certain, you know, left, oh, I'm like look lepto, my big toe. It is not lepto, right, right.
Speaker 1:Well, and you can ask them. I mean to me, like the key question, or what I think you want to rule out, like you told me, the kind of vomiting Lazi was doing Okay, this is profuse vomiting, like, so you rule out anything life-threatening? And that could be a question to ask A pet parent goes in say let's rule out anything what could be immediately life-threatening, you know, for my pet. So like I know, blockage pyometra for um Lazi, which is an infection in the uterus which can be quite serious, so any intact female, you just want to rule that out, which can be done on x-ray or ultrasound. Just want to make sure you you rule that out and if they and if they can tell you there's nothing immediately life threatening, then you say okay, we're just going to give it 24 hours and and see what happens. And okay, you can hydrate her, but then just stop poking her, stop, you know, running tests. They're just looking for something, something to treat, something to throw more drugs at. And you know I was actually having a conversation with a client after you went through this with Lazi and she had gone through similar circumstance at an ER with her dog and and she was totally aware she was like I just had to go in because I needed some help for my dog and we were talking about it and I said you know, I bet.
Speaker 1:So we know that Mars, these big corporate conglomerates own the clinics. They own the food companies. They're probably in cahoots with pharmaceutical. I bet they own the labs too. I bet they're all in cahoots. So why do they train the vets? I can't prove this, but I suspect that they're. They're training the vets to do all these tests because it's all going into the same company. And not only that, but those vets are bonus on production. In most corporate clinics it's either monthly or quarterly, but they are bonus on production, the sheer dollar amount that they bring in. So there's a strong incentive for them to sell.
Speaker 1:So I mean, what happened again? What happened during COVID? Hospitals were paid for a COVID diagnosis and then they're paid when a patient goes on the ventilator To declare that a patient died from COVID. They got paid for that. So it's a messed up system and it's so hard when you're, when you're panicked. I mean I'd say I bet one of the most valuable things a pet parent can do is, before your pet gets sick, find some exercises to do, learn how, learn some skills in calming yourself, because we all do it, I'm the same way. It's human nature. When you're afraid, you cannot think logically. It's impossible. You're in fight or flight. So breathing exercises, anything you can do that can teach you to calm down when you're afraid so that you can make a logical decision, and then you can trust your instincts. You can't tune into your intuition when you're that afraid and until we get a new round of holistic vets out there, it's going to be like this for a while, I'm afraid.
Speaker 2:You know, they also said well, it's possibly pancreatitis.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Then they did the whole panel, the lipase and all that, whatever that panel is. They were like, okay, well, it's not pancreatitis either. I was like, oh my gosh. You know, it would have been funny had I said, okay, what's your commission? What's your commission? Can we negotiate your commission? How about we just take your commission off of the price of this, Right? Can we do that Right? They would probably lose their mind. What's your bonus for? Oh, you'll be kicked out for being rude or attacking.
Speaker 2:I can't believe they have those signs, they're everywhere. Never heard that before. They're everywhere. They're on the walls, they're on the doors, they're on the tables, they're everywhere. Basically, shut your face, shut your sphincter, march to our drum and pay our demands.
Speaker 2:They all have little matching soldier uniforms oh my gosh they marched around in it was, it was a, it was a terrible experience, I would just say, and uh, so there you go. I have experienced just what you have and it's not fun, um, so these are some good tips that you've given dr jacek and you guys. Just try and find um, get dr jacek's, you know, on your team one but two, find in your area somebody outside of the corporate system. I know it's hard but but you know it's like Amanda's clinic.
Speaker 1:They're still not corporate in Moab, right, they are not a corporate clinic and um, well and a lot of people you know, because they don't want to deal with the vets, they don't take their pet in until they're sick, but find the non corporate clinics and just pay for an office visit, go, sit down and talk to them like so I bring my pet in here on emergency. How do you roll? How do you handle that? What's your procedure? Because then you can have a logical, calm conversation Because you're not afraid. Are you going to require vaccines? I feed raw. Are you okay with that? You're not okay with that. I'm not going to bring my pet in to you when my pet sick because you're just going to blame it on the raw food and sit down and have that conversation.
Speaker 1:Pay you know local clinics probably 7580 bucks for an office visit, pay for their time. So you can talk to the doctor and say, okay, what will happen if I bring my pet in here? Now, some smaller clinics may not have emergency hours. They might refer to the ERs, but you should always be able to transfer care. So say, you find a great little local clinic but they don't see after hours, so you got to run your dog in at three in the morning. Ask them can I transfer care back to you Because the ER cannot hold your pet captive. Say, stabilize my pet till 8am. I'm transferring them back to my regular vet for care and they may not like it, but they should do that.
Speaker 1:So those are some other things you can do, like, like Didi said, have an ally, or maybe your vet. You could just pay for an office visit to get on the phone with them and say, look, my pet's in the ER. I mean, I actually do this with my clients. Sometimes They'll contact us in a panic hey, my dog's in the ER, I need to talk to you and we'll just schedule them an appointment. I do tell them medicine anyway. So schedule an appointment to get on the phone with them. Okay, this is what's going on. I look at the records and give them some advice. So maybe your local vet would do the same thing pay them for their time, but just do a phone call and say, hey, would you help me? Here's the records. Or you go meet with them personally, schedule an appointment, your dog's at the ER. You go in there with the records, say, here's what's going on with my dog. This is the blood work. What do you think? I need a second opinion on this. So absolutely finding an ally, another opinion is really, really important.
Speaker 2:You know the other thing? Because we decided not to do the surgery and take her out. We wanted to be able to take her home, feed her, see if she could, you know, hold the food and everything, bring her back and have them do another ultrasound the next day. They said, no, we won't do it. They said, if she's doing, fine, you just keep going down the road, keep going, do whatever you want to do, but we're not going to bring her back here and do a drive by ultrasound, Meaning you don't get to decide.
Speaker 1:They decide they decide what's best for your dog.
Speaker 2:You don't have no you have.
Speaker 1:You play no role in the decision-making whatsoever.
Speaker 2:That is correct. You don't get to speak.
Speaker 1:Just be a good little slave and be quiet.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I'm just not. I cannot do it. No, you cannot do it. I cannot do it.
Speaker 1:The irony of you driving into that parking lot in your big raw food truck. It's just like that's a classic. I mean I could just see, because these buildings have these big giant windows in the front. You know, I mean I've been in some of these places and you drive up and they're so anti-raw food and here you come with your sick big truck with the raw food embalm that's. I bet they thought she had the bird flu. Did they ever say that?
Speaker 2:No, because they knew I was like, because it was so funny. The vet said no, we would never, ever, we would never ever. Our policy is we would never, ever feed raw here. And I said, okay, your policy is never, ever. My policy is always. Yeah, she didn't like me. I'm surprised that I don't have a big, you know my ankle's not broken from my husband kicking me, you know I just. But anyway, well, you guys, you can always work with Dr Jasek. I mean, she's been a lifesaver for me. I know she would be for you. She's at ahavetcom, ahavetcom and get your dog on a species appropriate diet. You know, I'm sorry I don't get the whole.
Speaker 2:My cat got the bird flu. You know where I'd be going, dr Jasek. I'd be looking at what. Have they changed? The vaccines for the cats? Are they detrimental to cats? But you know, neely was talking and she was like there's so few cats but a lot of cats are sick a lot of the time, especially being on that crappy food. They're on from the vets. You know, I had a guy. He was fixing my bike. I have an e-bike and, uh, I had a flat and he was fixing it. He goes yeah, my cats are on this prescription food that my vet said they needed to be on. I said, well, that's crap you don't, you're getting fruit loops.
Speaker 2:I said you can't, shouldn't be on that he goes. I'm not gonna argue with you. I said okay, you just keep going down that same road just make sure that just that's.
Speaker 1:At that point you just be quiet, because you want your tire fixed?
Speaker 2:I just need my tire fixed, roy. And um, you know I love roy, but roy was was going to not listen to anything I had to say and his comment was it's so expensive. Is she getting any better, roy? Is she getting any? Yeah, you're feeding a cat, roy. Fine, I'm not lying, roy, but anyway, I mean I was like you know, I've been feeding raw longer than that little silly tech has been on this earth. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Isn't that crazy? But I have no afalting.
Speaker 1:No, no, I know. I said to this veterinary student I was talking to today. I said you know, I've probably been practicing medicine longer than you've been alive. And we just laugh because, yeah, she's probably 25, 30 years old, you know, it makes you realize how long I've been around doing this Like holy smokes.
Speaker 2:You know what they think, dr Jasek. They're like oh, they're just old, they're stuck on their ways, they don't know which. I probably thought that when I was younger. I don't know, but what I do know is that experience stubbing your toe, making a wrong decision, making mistakes and on the flip side and then also having a large body of work to look at makes for a very smart person.
Speaker 1:Well, and I've evolved in this. I mean, I started out coming out of that school. I recommended all the stuff we were taught and I didn't know anything about how the food companies fund the vet school. This gal I talked to today. She knew all about that.
Speaker 2:You know.
Speaker 1:she knew that the big food companies you know subsidize the universities and all that. And I said, well, you're way far ahead, because I didn't know any of that when I was in vet school. It took me well, I'm a little slower to, you know catch on to things but I started doing that. I just saw it wasn't working, so I learned, so I've done all the different ways, so it's not like I've always done this and I'm just stuck in my ways. It was the. I used to recommend kibble and then I recommended the better kibbles, which. There is no better kibbles. But that was my transition and then started learning about raw. And then, as I started, you know, talking to people about feeding raw, I attracted more clients that fed raw and I learned from them. Like, how are you doing? How are you doing this? How do you feed your dog? Their dogs look fantastic healthiest patients. I have like tell me about this. What are you?
Speaker 2:doing I'd ask them.
Speaker 1:I learned a lot from them and then I saw the difference and then after you see that your patients are so much better, then there's no going back. But yeah, I learned from experience and I've seen pets on all the different diets and there's just no question that raw is better. I mean the best hands down. It's a natural food.
Speaker 2:They've evolved, Dr Jasek, to eat chemicals, cakes and cookies. I mean, come on, and this is something that now I say, Walk me through the evolved digestive system, Walk me through how that happens that the digestive system works better with all that processed chemicals, cakes and cookies.
Speaker 1:Can you walk me through that? It's just like us humans. Like did we evolve to eat Taco Bell and McDonald's? So now we can eat that and be healthy like?
Speaker 2:I don't think so I think that guy tried that on fat sick and fat sick and what was the name of that, and he he did end up getting some kidney problems, I think. Remember he did.
Speaker 1:Um, I think yeah ate mcdonald's three times a day or something for a month just to see what would happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think he had some real problems after that you know, and and and we're not.
Speaker 2:And we're talking that people leave their dogs on science, diet and heals and prescription. And if I hear that word prescription, diet one more time, it's so misleading. Yeah, yeah, right, that is misleading. What is prescription? You know what's prescription? You can only get it from the nazis, right? The vet nazis, right. You can only get it from them. They have to write you the prescription because they don't have that brand in the grocery store. Doesn't mean it's gonna fix anything, right, it means it's. It's theirs to make commission off of, and only them and they they really.
Speaker 1:The thing that makes it different is the price tag, because if you look at the ingredients and you can look the ingredients up online go look up hills prescription diets and pick one.
Speaker 2:The whatever letter, id, kd, dd no, not dd, don't put iti in there, zidi.
Speaker 1:Not Didi and look at the actual ingredients and then pull a Purina or Pedigree or Iams or one of these typical grocery store kibbles and I bet you'll find those ingredients to be really similar and if not exact, they're nutritionally the same. There's no difference because you're going to feed a food like that, you know. Save the money and go buy at the grocery store, though that's not what we recommend. Feed them a fresh food diet but it's just a racket. There's nothing prescription about them.
Speaker 2:Go through it. This is a great exercise. You guys Get the ingredients list on one, get the circle, or let's mark out all the ones that are exactly the same on the prescription, one where you have something different than the grocery store one, send those into us and we'll go over them for you and tell you what those are. Okay, be a great little, great little test, great little test. Well, I can't thank you enough, dr jayzik uh, for keeping me sane and helping me, and I can't tell you it's like the sun comes out when your dog's well. It's like well nothing else.
Speaker 1:You learn how to relate to. You know stories you hear from your customers.
Speaker 2:It's awful. But I will say this I never once thought it was the raw dog food, never once I thought it possibly could it be a raw bone. But that was it, you know. And then I was like I just you know that was a weird thing. So, but I get it. Pet parents freak out, but that's why Dr Jasek is here. Brian is there in the chat.
Speaker 2:Now we're not going to do medical advice, that's Dr jasic's job. Um, so she's at ahavetcom, ahavetcom, and we are raw dog food and company. Oh, before I go, I have to tell you a a great little uh thing, dr jasic. So, um, my daughter-in-law and my two grandchildren, we were out to dinner in Moab the night before I left and we got in the truck, the big raw dog food truck, and Amanda pulls this note out and she said oh my gosh, here's a note. It was a note, and let me just tell you what it said, because I took a picture of it. There was a note on our truck. Wait, I've got so many pictures in here. One second I'm going to bring it up.
Speaker 1:This was left on the outside of your truck.
Speaker 2:The outside of the truck and with their business card. It said we love your products. How fun to see you here with a happy face. Thanks for what you do for our fur babies. Oh, that's from Outlaw Adventure Tours, moab's Most Wanted Adventures. That's in and their website is outlawadventuretourscom, right there in Moab. So thank you guys so much for leaving that on our car after the horrific time.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. You're like the toughest person I know, DeeDee. You just keep taking lickings and you keep on ticking. I don't know how you do it. Sometimes I got great friends like you. That's how.
Speaker 2:I do it. That's how I do it. All right, everybody, get over to rawdogfoodandcompanycom. Remember, every Wednesday, yeah, we got yappy hour. That means we have a sale. Uh, some people are like, yeah, I don't need the sale and that's fine, you can shop every day of the week. Uh, we got some new treats coming in as well, uh, that you guys are really gonna love, so watch for those. We got some new uh supplements that Dr Jasek's gonna love. I'm just cheating Dr Jasek is going to love. I'm just teasing Dr Jasek.
Speaker 1:There's nothing wrong completely with supplements used judiciously.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right. Don't get every single one of them Right. And the other thing, doctor, I have to say this real quick. So the vet at the first VCA, she was like oh and may I suggest probiotics? And I said stop right, right there, please don't talk to me about Fortiflora. I got a whole line of probiotics that are clean. Thank you very much uh, just be trite.
Speaker 2:yeah, right, right, right, uh. So anyway, you guys get over to rawdogfoodandcompanycom, where your pet's health is our business. And what, dr Jacek, friends don't let friends feed, kibble y'all. That's right, we'll see you soon, everybody. Bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Oh snap.
Speaker 2:Find out how you can start your dog on the road to health and longevity. Go to rawdogfoodandcompanycom, where friends don't let friends feed kibble and where your pet's health is our business, just snap.
